FOSBERY - FOSBURY - FOSBERRY
in NORTH AMERICA
The earliest North American record I've found so far is:
STEPHEN FOSBURY christened 13th March 1757 at Windsor, Hartford, Connecticut.
Now this record seems to tie a previous generation in with a communication I received from
William F Fosbury who wrote to me in July 1999:
There have been Fosbury's in the USA, from the late 1700's: I have, Stephen Fosbury born November 17, 1783, his son James Conant Fosbury, then Richard J. Fosbury, Arvis Fosbury, Francis Julian Fosbury - who died 22nd February 1999 at the age of 93 - and finally me.
I have traced my ancestors back to the late 1700's. That family tree also includes DICK FOSBURY of the 'FOSBURY FLOP' who won the gold medal in the 1968 Olympics.
Dick and I are about the same age. He and my sons are 3rd cousins. Our common ancestor is Richard Julian Fosbury:
In May 1999, Martin J Fosberry wrote:
It was great to discover this site. Have been trying to locate other members of the Fosbery / Fosberry etc. family for years. My sister and I have been working at this since approximately 1970. I have made several trips to Ireland and visited Adare. Also have been to England and found Fosbury. I am really fascinated that you have been to Curraghbridge. I have not located it. Briefly, I am descended from Michael Fosberry of County Limerick who married Mary Hickey on 10th September 1831 in Rathkeale, co. Limerick. His known children were:
William b.1832
Ann b. 1842
Letitia b. 1843
Thomas b. 1843
Henry b.1846.
Thomas, b.1843 was my great grandfather and arrived in Charleston, South Carolina sometime in the mid to late 1850s. He married Mary Ann Mulcahy and they had :
George b. 1860
Henry
William
Thomas*
Francis
Isabella
Letitia
Michael.
Thomas* , b. after 1860, was my grandfather.
I have yet to establish the kinship of Michael of co. Limerick to the 'main' branch of the Fosbery family at Clorane and Curraghbridge.
D.F. to Martin
This is a fascinating new link as I have already been in quite extensive correspondence with the California branch of the Fosbery Family through Joan, the wife of William Frederick Fosbery. He had an ancestor also named William, who we have deduced would have been born around 1828-32, and who emigrated to America from Ireland.
William Frederick F. traces his line from a George Fosbery who was born in Boston, Massachusetts in 1860, the son of the above immigrant William. George married his cousin - Ida May Fosbery - after going to California, where this branch of the family became established and have remained ever since.
Whilst I was brought up with the family observing 'only one R' in spelling the name Fosbery, it becomes more and more apparent now, especially since Internet Searches can seek in so much larger and varied a field, that the common name spelling variants containing "double R" or "Ury" must easily have arisen, especially when immigrants were being re-assigned documents upon arrival in their new country. The widespread 'Americanisation' of family names experienced by European Immigrants is testimony to this not infrequent occurrence.
Can we therefore safely assume that, way back in Britain and Ireland, at least the families of Fosbery, Fosberry and Fosbury were of common ancestry? - I believe so. There is an interesting connection which supports commonality with the Fosbrook family - and as a consequence that name's variants also - on the English side of the Irish Sea - but that, as they say in Texas, is 'a whole other country'.
Given Martin's above details, I went 'rummaging' in the family tree database, using the given dates and associated names of Michael's children in addition to William - viz. Ann, Letitia, Thomas and Henry - and reaching some conclusions, have encouraged Martin to regard himself as consanguinous with the 'one R' Fosbery stock of county Limerick. It's obvious that we are kin, the name and place of Michael's birth establish that, I believe beyond reasonable doubt. Now, it's just a case of finding a link at that time to the family in Limerick.
From the" Brother's Keeper " Family Tree Database the following appears as the possible if not the probable origin for Michael Fosberry, Martin's county Limerick Ancestor:
Francis Fosbery of Curraghbridge , Adare co. Limerick 1738 - 1810
married
Philippa Godfrey (d. 1814) daughter of John Godfrey & Gt. Grand daughter of Thomas Earl of Coningsby.
Her brother
Sir William Godfrey Bart. had a daughter named Letitia
This is the first occurrence of this forename in the Family Database of over 1700 names !
Francis and Philippa had 11 offspring in all (5 sons and 6 daughters).
Their eldest son was
George Fosbery of Curraghbridge - born 1774
who married Caroline Yielding in 1812
when he was aged 38.
Francis and Philippa's other offspring were:
Barbara - b. 1776
Jane - b. 1777
*Letitia - b. 1778 - This is the second occurrence of this forename in the Database.
Elizabeth - b. 1780
*William - b. 1781
Francis - b. 1784
Philippa - b. 1786
*Henry - b. 1789
*Anne - b. 1790
Godfrey - b. 1791
Now suppose George Fosbery had a son prior to his marriage in 1812 at the age of 38, this could well have been
Michael of co. Limerick who married Mary Hickey in September 1831, since he may have been born around 1800 when George would have been in his mid-20's.
Grounds for this supposition are:
1) Protestant / Catholic liaisons were not accepted in those times but obviously as 'the course of young love never did run smooth' such liaisons must have occurred from time to time. Maybe Michael was the child of such a 'love-match'.
2) Michael is commonly a Catholic name but had never before, nor was it subsequently to appear amongst the Fosbery family names until 1932 and only twice after that.
3) This might even account in some way for the adoption of a change in spelling of Michael's surname - Two R�s instead of One.
4) Michael might then have been raised as a Catholic by his mother's family and come to emigration during the great migrations from Ireland during and after the famines - late 1840�s - early 1850's.
5) George Fosbery had siblings carrying Four * of the names of Michael's five children - William, Ann, Letitia, Henry.
6) He was also 1st cousin to the first Letitia - Godfrey.
Brother to the second Letitia and
1st cousin once removed to Letitia Lyster, whose mother was his cousin Jane Fosbery
The third, and only other, Letitia in the Database !
7) George's younger brother William is a possible, though I believe less likely, candidate as Michael's father. His dates are suitable - 1781 to 1851 - but he married Elizabeth Goff in 1807, when young Michael may have been about 7 years old. The only child of his marriage was a son, William, b. 1808 , who is listed subsequently as having died without offspring.
8) On the other hand, if William b. 1781, was Michael's father, under the same premise, it would make sense for Michael to have named his son William also.
9) Other 'cousins' of George Fosbery of Curraghbridge during the period prior to Michael's birth do not have the same close name links as appear in an analysis of Michael's choice of names for the 5 children with his wife Mary - i.e. 4 out of 5 within his supposed father's house.
If we then look for some ' Thomas ' links - relating to the name of Michael's 5th child, born in 1843, we find that:
George Fosbery was Gt. Gt. Grandson of Thomas Earl of Coningsby
1st cousin to Thomas Vincent Fosbery and
1st cousin once removed to both Thomas Fosbery 1820 - 1893
and Thomas Rice Fosbery who died 1842
(and these same relationships apply of course to William, George's younger brother).
All this supposition of course takes no account of names which may have been chosen from within Michael's mother's family, apart from the name Michael itself - St Michael being one of the foremost of the Catholic Saints - this name had never previously, and was not again to appear in the Fosbery family tree for over 130 years.
Bear in mind that this is a working hypothesis from the 'Family Genealogist' - however if it meets with approval, please accept the same as a link to Clorane and Curraghbridge. Its a 'hook to hang your hat on' and 'a place at the family table' so to speak.
That said , through George Fosbery of Curraghbridge Martin and I would be 3rd Cousins once removed
thus:
George Fosbery of Curraghbridge
Francis George Fosbery.....................(half-brothers)............................Michael Fosberry
George Francis Wm. Fosbery..............(1st cousins)...............................Thomas Fosberry
Frederick Gordon W. Fosbery............(2nd cousins)..............................Thomas Fosberry
Desmond George W. Fosbery.............(3rd cousins)..............Father of Martin Fosberry
(= 3rd cousins once removed).................................................................Martin J. Fosberry
or
Through George's brother William Fosbery, we would be 4th cousins once removed
thus:
Francis Fosbery of Curraghbridge
George of Curraghbridge......................(Brothers)..............................William Fosbery
Francis George Fosbery......................(1st cousins)..........................Michael Fosberry
George Francis Wm. Fosbery..............(2nd cousins)..........................Thomas Fosberry
Frederick Gordon W. Fosbery.............(3rd cousins)..........................Thomas Fosberry
Desmond George W. Fosbery.............(4th cousins)...........Father of Martin Fosberry
(= 4th cousins once removed)............................................................Martin J. Fosberry
The years leading upto and through the American Civil War are an interesting period viewed from today's perspectives and I should like to build up this page with any details we may be able to incorporate covering the Charleston Fosberrys during that period of turbulent American History. Do you have any more family details from those early years in South Carolina , and subsequently?
M. F responded :
Just printed your replies to my comments.
I'm going to sit down and study your theory and will get back with some comments. I will put together a complete history of my family and send it to you so it can be included with your work.
Re-reading my comments to you, I realized I had left out one very important person:
My great grandfather Thomas, son of Michael of Limerick, had another son, his oldest, George Fosbery, born 4 July 1860. The plot thickens!
Your comments on the Catholic/Protestant thing is pretty much on target. Our family was raised in the Irish Catholic traditions, however, my father told me that the children of the George (b. 1860) mentioned above were Episcopalians.
Thomas b. 1843, arrived in Charleston shortly before the ' War of Northern Aggression' and the city suffered severely during the subsequent years. Charleston was under siege by Union artillery for over a year and a half. Many records were destroyed and we [Martin and his sister] have had a hard time with researching records covering that period.
We have found bits and pieces of family here that seemed to have come to Charleston and then completely disappeared.
For instance, there is a record of another George Fosberry who enlisted in the 5th South Carolina Cavalry in 1862, then there is no further record. The whole family of a Joseph Fosberry listed in the 1860 census as being 30 years old and born in Ireland just vanishes with no further record.
We must assume that the war years were just too hard for them and they packed up and left.
D.F
The plot does thicken or perhaps its clarifying!
I appreciated the reference to the ' War of Northern Aggression ' - Spoken as a true Southern Gentleman.
24th May 99 - to Joan and Bill [William Frederick] Fosbery in California
Joan - consider this:
So far in the database I have used logical devices to get 'you-all' back as far as Ireland thus:
Known:
Ida May Fosbery b. 1870 San Francisco, California (d. 1934)
married her cousin
George Fosbery b. 1860 Boston, Massachusetts (d. 1929)
Ida's Parents = William Frederick Fosbery b. ?1830 d. 1887
&
Sarah (n�e Brown) 1826 - 1920
George's Parents = Wm. Frederick�s Brother
&
' Wife of Wm. Frederick's Brother'
For 'cousins' I assumed First Cousins. Therefore by deduction, George's Father would have been William Frederick's Brother, and both these brothers would have had the same two parents (but we should be prepared for the term 'cousins' not necessarily to be first cousins unless this is a known fact in the family by 'oral history' or documentation).
Having accepted '1st cousins', I used a device (seems clumsy, but the database accepts it) to say that these shared parents were "named" :
"Father to Wm. Fredk and Wm. Fredk's brother FOSBERY" b. around 1800
&
"Wife of the father to Wm. Fredk. & Wm. Fredk�s brother (n�e?)" b.(say around) 1805
This was in order to put them firmly back in Ireland - i.e. prior to the great migrations to America.
Now, consider the definite and new fact of
Michael Fosberry of county Limerick b. (say around) 1800 who
Married Mary Hickey in 1831 at Rathkeale, county Limerick.
Their children were:
William b. 1832
Could this be 'our' William Frederick Fosbery - father of Ida May Fosbery?
We had supposed him to have been born around 1830 - which is pretty close !
Ann b. 1842
Letitia b. 1843
Thomas b. 1843
Henry b. 1846
We see quite a gap between William and Ann, ten years diference in age, and the liklihood of the family 'splitting' at this point in terms of migration West or South once they reached America seems a logical possibility.
Now, following on from Martin's further family history we have the added essential fact of Thomas (b. 1843) having had an Eldest son George born in 1860.
There it is!!
George 'the American', born 1860 - on July 4th to boot ! - in Boston, Massachusetts whose Uncle William born 1832 had settled in California and was the father Ida May. This uncle, George must have eventually joined in California, before marrying his cousin Ida May Fosbery.
This brings us to consider the great treks Westward, the Settlers and the Gold-Rush, the American Civil War and who was for the South, who was for the North and who went West.
The Fosberry family in S. Carolina continued as Catholics, and parted with those who went to California, while their (the Fosberry) family oral tradition continued in saying that those were ' the Episcopalians ' !
Several factors during that era split up families, even at times found them supporting opposing factions in the Civil War - surely what we are working on here and now is putting families back together in a too fragmented modern world.
Accepting the Michael Fosberry - b. circa 1800 in county Limerick - connection,
Bill's relationships slot right into place in the following way, and based on the known facts
(which are repeated here for ease of availability whilst scrolling the document) :
Francis Fosbery of Curraghbridge , Adare co. Limerick 1738 - 1810
married
Philippa Godfrey (d. 1814) daughter of John Godfrey & Gt. Grand daughter of Thomas Earl of Coningsby.
Her brother
Sir William Godfrey Bart. had a daughter named Letitia
This is the first occurrence of this forename in the Family Database of over 1700 names !
Francis and Philippa had 11 offspring in all (5 sons and 6 daughters).
Their eldest son was
George Fosbery of Curraghbridge - born 1774
who married Caroline Yielding in 1812
when he was aged 38.
Francis and Philippa's other offspring were:
Barbara - b. 1776
Jane - b. 1777
*Letitia - b. 1778 - This is the second occurrence of this forename in the Database.
Elizabeth - b. 1780
*William - b. 1781
Francis - b. 1784
Philippa - b. 1786
*Henry - b. 1789
*Anne - b. 1790
Godfrey - b. 1791
Now suppose George Fosbery had a son prior to his marriage in 1812 at the age of 38, this could well have been
Michael of co. Limerick who married Mary Hickey in September 1831, since he may have been born around 1800 when George would have been in his mid-20's.
Grounds for this supposition are:
1) Protestant / Catholic liaisons were not accepted in those times but obviously as 'the course of young love never did run smooth' such liaisons must have occurred from time to time. Maybe Michael was the child of such a 'love-match'.
2) Michael is commonly a Catholic name but had never before, nor was it subsequently to appear amongst the Fosbery family names until 1932 and only twice after that.
3) This might even account in some way for the adoption of a change in spelling of Michael's surname (Two R�s instead of One).
4) Michael might then have been raised as a Catholic by his mother's family and come to emigration during the great migrations from Ireland during and after the famines - late 1840�s - early 1850's.
5) George Fosbery had siblings carrying Four * of the names of Michael's five children - William, Ann, Letitia, Henry.
6) He was also 1st cousin to the first Letitia - Godfrey.
Brother to the second Letitia and
1st cousin once removed to Letitia Lyster, whose mother was his cousin Jane Fosbery
The third, and only other, Letitia in the Database !
7) George's younger brother William is a possible, though I believe less likely, candidate as Michael's father. His dates are suitable - 1781 to 1851 - but he married Elizabeth Goff in 1807, when young Michael may have been about 7 years old. The only child of his marriage was a son, William, b. 1808 , who is listed subsequently as having died without offspring.
8) On the other hand, if William b. 1781, was Michael's father, under the same premise, it would make sense for Michael to have named his son William also.
9) Other 'cousins' of George Fosbery of Curraghbridge during the period prior to Michael's birth do not have the same close name links as appear in an analysis of Michael's choice of names for the 5 children with his wife Mary - i.e. 4 out of 5 within his supposed father's house.
If we then look for some ' Thomas ' links - relating to the name of Michael's 5th child, born in 1843, we find that:
George Fosbery was Gt. Gt. Grandson of Thomas Earl of Coningsby
1st cousin to Thomas Vincent Fosbery and
1st cousin once removed to both Thomas Fosbery 1820 - 1893
and Thomas Rice Fosbery who died 1842
(and these same relationships apply of course to William, George's younger brother).
All this supposition of course takes no account of names which may have been chosen from within Michael's mother's family, apart from the name Michael itself - St Michael being one of the foremost of the Catholic Saints - this name had never previously, and was not again to appear in the Fosbery family tree for over 130 years.
Bear in mind that this is a working hypothesis from the 'Family Genealogist' - however if it meets with approval, please accept the same as a link to Clorane and Curraghbridge. Its a 'hook to hang your hat on' and 'a place at the family table' so to speak.
That said , through George Fosbery of Curraghbridge Bill and I would be 3rd Cousins once removed
thus:
George Fosbery of Curraghbridge
(b. 1774)
Francis George Fosbery......................(half-brothers)..............................Michael Fosberry
(b. 1813).......................................................................................(b. 1800)
George Francis Wm. Fosbery..............(1st cousins)..............William Frederick Fosber[r]y
(b. 1869 11th child/1st son)......................................................................(b. 1830 or 1832)
Frederick Gordon W. Fosbery.............(2nd cousins)....................................Ida May Fosbery
(b. 1905)....................................................................................................(b. 1870)
Desmond George W. Fosbery..............(3rd cousins)..................William Frederick Fosbery
(b.1940)...................................................................................(b. 1891 - d.1950)
(3rd cousins once removed)........................................William Frederick Fosbery (Bill & You)
............................................................................................... (b. 1941)
or
If through George's brother William Fosbery (b. 1781), we would be 4th cousins once removed
thus:
Francis Fosbery of Curraghbridge
(1738 - 1810)
George of Curraghbridge.....................(Brothers).....................................William Fosbery
(b. 1774).............................................................................................(b. 1781)
Francis George Fosbery........................(1st cousins)...............................Michael Fosberry
(b. 1813)............................................................................................(b. 1800)
George Francis Wm. Fosbery..............(2nd cousins)..........William Frederick Fosber[r]y
(b. 1869)...........................................................................( ? b. 1830 or 1832)
Frederick Gordon W. Fosbery..............(3rd cousins)................................Ida May Fosbery
(b. 1905)............................................................................................(b. 1870)
Desmond George W. Fosbery.............(4th cousins)...............William Frederick Fosbery
(b. 1940)............................................................................................(b. 1891)
(4th cousins once removed).....................................William Frederick Fosbery (Bill & You)
.................................................................................................(b. 1941)
Finally we may consider the relationships between William Frederick ' Bill ' Fosbery in California and Martin J. Fosberry in South Carolina. Interestingly there are two relationships, either through George, the American, or through Ida May Fosbery as follows :
Michael Fosberry
(b. 1800 ?)
William (Frederick) Fosberry.......................(Brothers)........................Thomas Fosberry
(b. 1832)........................................................................................(b. 1843)
Ida May Fosbery............................(1st cousins)..............................Thomas Fosberry
(b. 1870)................................................................................(b. after 1860)
William Frederick Fosbery...............(2nd cousins)......................Father of Martin Fosberry
(b. )............................................................................................................(b. )
Frank William Fosbery..............................(3rd cousins)................................Martin J. Fosberry
(b. )..............................................................................................................(b. )
William Frederick ' Bill ' Fosbery..............................................3rd Cousins once removed.
or
Thomas Fosberry
(b. 1843)
George Fosber(r)y.........................(Brothers)........................Thomas Fosberry
(b. 1860).................................................................................(b. after 1860)
William Frederick Fosbery......................(1st cousins).....................Father of Martin Fosberry
(b. ).............................................................................................(b. )
Frank William Fosbery..........................(2nd cousins)............................Martin Fosberry
(b. )..............................................................................................(b. )
William Frederick ' Bill ' Fosbery.................................2nd Cousins once removed.
Dick Fosbury
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